Chris Onthank:
Hey, welcome to Canine Master Radio Show on Pet Life Radio. And I'm your host, Chris Onthank. How are you guys? Today I have joining me, my director of training at Doggone Smart, the Canine Center in Fairfield County. Jamie Kelsey. Jamie. Hey, how are you today?
Jaimee Kelsey:
Good. Hi everyone. So happy to be here.
Chris Onthank:
Well, today we're going to talk about Jamie, what to do when I have all things reactive when it comes to my dog and my dog being on a leash. I think this is a great subject matter to cover because so many people are dealing with this kind of situation every single day. I mean, Jamie, don't you hear about our clients always dealing with this?
Jaimee Kelsey:
Absolutely. It's a top training priority for our clients, and even in our canine facility in our lobby, when clients enter with their dogs, sometimes before we even say hello, we say, don't let your dogs meet on leash or keep your dogs close to you. Because we know in that type of close proximity to other dogs, when dogs are on leash, we can see some leash reactivity when we don't see it, when they're off leash playing on the play floor.
Chris Onthank:
And that comes down to all dogs have fight or flight, right? So when a dog is on a leash, we're eliminating what we're eliminating flight. And when a dog is off leash, the dog has the ability to back away to look away. So we get a lot of false body posture readings coming out of the dog when it's on a leash. A couple of things that I always mention, when a dog is on a leash, generally they're out in front, which is the wrong place for them to be? We're going to get to that today, Jamie, right? But being on leash, when I have a dog that's on a leash and he's pulling on that leash, he's leaning forward and he's leaning forward against the leash, pulling on that leash. But what am I reading as another dog? I'm seeing this body pressure of leaning forward.
Well, when I see body pressure of a human leaning forward or a dog leaning forward, that's dominance. It reads as, Hey, I'm about to kick your butt. So having a dog on a leash can really make your dog appear to be more dominance or threatening. And of course, if I'm scared and I don't have the ability to run away or back away, you're giving me a cornered response, which is also that cornered response, which I want to talk about so much. That cornered response is responsible for a lot of the aggression at a lot of the barking coming out of the dog.
Jaimee Kelsey:
And you're talking about a dominant stance, but most of the times what that is is reflective of the dog's fear because like you said, fight or flight. When a dog is uncertain of an interaction and you remove a defense option of flight, well, what's left is fight. And so dogs will present as that even though it's based in fear.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah. And so this is where we see that, gosh, the dog is fine with everybody outside when he is off leash, but as soon as I put him on a leash, he gets very reactive. And again, we see dogs. Sometimes even it leads to aggression. So where one dog is fine off leash and then he's on a leash and he appears aggressive, but then if it's pushed, the aggression comes out. And that's where dogs will either bite another dog or attack another dog, or even possibly a human or even a child, an adult, or a child. So we really need to make sure that when a dog is on a leash, there's a couple of rules that we want to adhere to. And if we adhere to these rules, rarely do we have issues, but if we don't, it happens a lot.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Chris, can we start maybe just with a little bit of a review of the best tools when you're leash walking your dog?
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, so that's a great place to start.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Like no retractable leash
Chris Onthank:
And yeah, so retractable leashes, you really don't have a lot of control. I am not a big fan of retractable leashes unless of course I'm going on a road trip and I'm stopping at rest stops and I need my dog to go to the bathroom very quickly and feel that freedom. But retractable leashes, the owner has a lot of risk either to themselves. As to the other dog, we see that where a dog will go to the end of the retractable leash and they'll knock the owner over, or the retractable leash wraps around a finger and does severe damage to a finger or a leg, but a retractable leash also, you don't have the control that you have with a six foot leash. Now we like to use leather leashes. Leather leashes give you an amazing amount of grip, but there are some types of rubber leashes that do also have grip, but a nylon leash can be very slippery. So I'd like to walk our dog on a six foot leather leash sized appropriately in width for the dog that we're walking. That's important. The next best thing is what are we walking the dog on? Now, this can really vary depending on the dog's temperament. We prefer either a no pull harness, Jamie, which kind of brands are we looking at for no pull
Jaimee Kelsey:
Harnesses? We use the freedom no pull harness. We really like that. What's really important is that in the front, it's almost like power steering. When you clip the harness on the back, you think, yes, it redistributes the weight, so the dog isn't pulling on their neck, but what happens is it turns them into a sled dog. So it gives them the upper hand and the strength to pull you when the clip is in the front. If they pull, they're going to get redirected. And also some of these brands have a clip both in the front, in the back.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, so basically the no pull harness is a really good option. The other option is something like the gentle leader, the Halte by my friend Roger Mulford in England with the Company of Animals, they make the halte, which is also very good. The thing about these leash is these kind of head collars. They're almost like a horse halter where the head goes, the body will follow. So these can be fine, except it takes sometimes a little bit of adjustment for the dog to get used to. What we tell people to do is to actually don't start out just putting it on your dog and walking outside, but actually put it on your dog. Give them some great treats when it's on, and then take it off. Wait for a little bit, maybe wait for a minute, then put it back on and give 'em great treats and let them get used to the feeling of this halter.
The pressure. Yeah, we call it the halter. And the way it works is that when you pull on the halt or gentle leader, what happens is you're putting pressure around the muzzle and around the back of the head, at the top of the back of the head. So these are two very controlling parts of the dog. Again, some dogs really, really have issues with this. The other thing that you can use is just a flat collar. Flat collars can be a little bit harder. I think that you will find that with a flat collar, you need to make sure that you are able to control the dog with a flat collar on. And if you aren't, then that flat collar is probably not the one to use. I would then go back to a harness.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Chris, one thing I want to say about the flat collar that's so important is you need to make sure that it's snug enough. If it's looser than two fingertips, the dogs can houdini their head out of it. And if you've got a dog who's being reactive and barking and they slip that collar, that's not a good situation. So make sure your dog's collar is snug. Christo always says two fingertips under the collar.
Chris Onthank:
Yep. Thanks Jamie for reminding me of that. That is important, making sure it's snug enough. And a lot of people think, oh my gosh, well, I can put my whole hand in it, and if your whole hand is in it, it's too loose. So the other colors that we can talk about, but I'm not big fans of one, is a chain choke collar. I'm not a fan of that at all. It can collapse the trachea. They are abusive. I don't see the need for one of these. And you're training the dog. They say it's the sound of a chain and the link that's a lot of hogwash. It's actually, it's a pop on the leash that inflicts a little bit of pain onto the dog. There is another collar that we sometimes will recommend, but rarely again, and that is the prong collar. But I wouldn't recommend you using a prong collar unless you're working with a trainer that really knows what they're doing and is not an abusive trainer because they can be really used in an abusive way. So my best bets for teaching a dog to walk nicely on a leash is either a head halter or even a harness. And the other resort is a flat collar.
Jaimee Kelsey:
And the six foot leash
Chris Onthank:
And the six foot leather leash is a great, great thing to start with.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Yeah, let's look at some of the causes.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, some of the causes. Well, when a dog is on a leash and he is walking down and you walk up to another dog on a leash with a human attached, and that dog is out in front of you past what we'll call the body plane past your knee out in front, and he's walking up to this other dog and this person, what is happening is you're putting that dog in. The decision making process is this dog friendlier foe. And what happens when you do that is you're putting all the pressure on that dog to make a decision on how to read the situation and how to react. And that right there is the cause of many, many dogs getting aggressive and becoming reactive on leash. You're putting the dog in the decision making process of determining who's friend or foe. So where do dogs naturally want to go if they have a strong leader?
And we're going to go back to this leader. If I'm the leader and I'm the human leader, then I determine who's friendly or foe. I determine who's dangerous and what we're going to do. So if a dog is out in front of you, you are acting sort of as it's subordinates. And when I say subordinate, you are not taking the lead. You're not taking charge. They're letting the dog make that determination. And a fearful dog, which many, many, many dogs have a little bit of fear in them and they're cornered and they're on a leash, are going to become reactive. So how do I get rid of this?
Jaimee Kelsey:
Chris? Doesn't some of this mindset start inside the home before we try to transfer it outside into distractions?
Chris Onthank:
That's a great point, Jamie. A lot of how a dog determines its role within the pack, within the family pack is that started in the home. And that brings me to what we should be doing. We should start this in the home, but let me back up a little bit. If you are in front when it comes to meeting another dog and a human on a leash, if the dog is behind you and he's, let's say he's an arms distance behind you or a good 18 inches behind your rear end, he's accepted that you are in front. What happens is your dog will be non-reactive. It is impossible for a dog to be reactive if he's behind you. I'm just going to repeat that again. I'd never see it not happen. It is impossible for a dog to become reactive if he's behind you and you are taking over the greeting. So where do we practice this? What Jamie just said is exactly right. We practice this in the house. Alright, Jamie, give us some examples of what we do in the house.
Jaimee Kelsey:
In the house is making sure that your dog, we like to call it accountable. It's positive, it's loving, but it's accountable. It's making sure that you're answering the door first. You're not tasking your dog with being the gatekeeper to greeting guests that you are giving your dog little commands, little jobs throughout the day, sit down, go to your bed so your dog knows they're accountable. Many people say, oh, my dog's perfect at home. It's once I get outside the house. And so that's when you have to do the work. But if being accountable to you is a novel idea, it's going to be very hard to teach in a distracted environment. So I'll even work with clients and we'll leash walk around the house, we'll walk around the house and we'll practice the position. We'll practice the leash and the collar and the harness and make sure that the owner feels empowered and in control so that we're not learning outside, we're just transferring. And that can be very helpful.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, I think that's all important stuff. And that is exactly the kinds of stuff that we start off doing when we are starting off. So when we start off, we start off inside the house. So a couple of just techniques, I'm walking through a doorway or a threshold and as I'm walking through the threshold, the dog tries to race through the door in front of me and if I allow him to do so, I just voted him in his leader. Now a lot of people say, oh, sit. I don't want you to say sit. No commands in that situation. Use body pressure. Body pressure, your own to your own dog can be very, very useful. So if I'm walking through a doorway and the dog is accompanying me in, let's say I'm going from the dining room into the kitchen where all the food is and the dog tries to shoot through that doorway and he tries to race through in front of me, I'm going to actually give a guttural tone and then I'm going to turn and face the dog with body pressure.
So sort of leaning forward into the dog a little bit. And then if I have to, I'll use my legs to shove him, not kick him, folks to shove him behind me going through the doorways, same things with going upstairs and downstairs. Again, if the dog tries to pass me going up the stairs and I let him do so, I just voted him in as being the leader in my territory. So again, up and down stairs, he must be behind you going up and down stairs through all doorways. Sometimes it is very helpful if I have a dog guy I just can't catch in time to take about a six foot leash, nylon leash, I'm going to say nylon because they're cheap and I'm going to cut off the loop and I'm going to attach it to the dog's collar, flat collar. And then I'm going to tie that to my belt or even hold that as I wander around so that at least I have some control if the dog wants to try to pass me going through doorways upstairs and downstairs. One more thing I just want to let you know is if I'm going outside and my dog races out the door and I allow him to do so, insides one territory, outside's another, but he races into the new territory. Again, I'm teaching him that. He goes first, he makes the decisions your dog must be behind you, behind you, behind you, behind you. And then we start to see the dog becoming non-reactive. And then when we take that outside, it becomes much easier inside. First
Jaimee Kelsey:
I want to add one thing, and you let me know if this is on point. Again, we're focusing on cause not correction. When guests come to our home and we allow our dogs to jump on them or be the first greeter, they start to feel that they're the representative of the pack and they're the greeter and people are coming and people walk in and oh my God, what a cute dog. So they may start to anticipate when they see neighbors or strangers on the street that that's going to be the same type of interaction. So I coach clients when people come over, don't let them interact with your dog. Don't make it like they're there to see your dog, take the pressure off of your dog so they feel you have control of those interactions and then that can transfer into the greetings outside.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, I think that's very, very good advice. One of the things I will do is when clients, we had recently a dog named Cassius Large rape Dane, and he was becoming reactive. The owners were having some real problems and he actually became aggressive when greeting people. And the interesting thing is that we started doing some exercises at the door where we taught the dog through using a lot of body pressure that when a stranger comes to the house, they are to basically keep the dog away from the stranger. So we took some blue painter's tape and we made a box around the front door and I rang the doorbell. The dog didn't know me at this point. And when the dog came racing up, barking, barking, barking, they took their body, turned flipped, face the dog, and literally shoved the dog out of the box using their body pressure and their legs as well.
And they were able to do this. And now literally when the doorbell rings, he waits patiently for the stranger to come in and it really took away all the reactivity of that dog with strangers. That's just an example. So teaching that first that you are in charge as the leader of your family pack and that you're in charge of the interactions within the space that carries through to you're in charge of the interactions outside of the space.
Speaker 1:
Chris Onthank:
Jamie, you have heard from some of our clients and some of the listeners, give me some flavor of what you're hearing out there and maybe we can address some of these.
Jaimee Kelsey:
So I think just understanding why the dog's behavior is so different on leash than off leash, and we see it every day when they come into the lobby before they go into the playcare, the dogs may have hackles up and they may be growling on leash and then they get into the group and they're off leash and they're totally fine in their best friends. And so really explaining that dynamic to clients so they can understand it Within family dogs and neighborhood dogs, I printed a bunch of training inquiries and we can read some of them and I'm sure they apply to many and coach through the techniques. I'll read one here. Callie's very nervous on leash. She wags her tail, so maybe a bit conflicted. She wags her tail like she wants to say hi, but then she gets low to the ground barks and lunges if they attempt to come near her. She's also reactive to dogs in her neighborhood on leash, there are dogs that are barking at her first, but now the response is that she is reactive every time she sees them. This is not sustainable and I'd really like to find a place where we can walk in my neighborhood without her barking and lunging and can be comfortable until we pass. She's extremely social with dogs and other humans off the leash. But this is a behavior on leash that I need some guidance with.
Chris Onthank:
So that is so typical of what we hear often. Some people need to understand that when a dog is on leash, we talked about false body language, the dog is not able to retreat, the dog is not able to do, maybe go into a play posture because he's pulling on the leash and he can't get into that position. And then of course they're also feeling very cornered. And as soon as we take them off leash, they have the ability if a dog, all dogs have fight or flight and they all have different degrees of fight or flight. So a very confident dog is going to have a higher fight than flight, and a fearful dog is going to have a higher flight than fight. And a conflicted dog is going to be right there in the middle saying, should a fight should run, should a fight should run.
But when a conflicted dog, which she just described, this dog, Callie, sounds a little conflicted, is on a leash. We're taking away the ability to flee and then we build fight. So many dogs, many, many, many dogs will become more aggressive on leash than off leash. And as soon as you take 'em off leash, they're fine. So what do we do with those dogs that are aggressive on leash? Well, remember when I said to you that a dog that's behind you cannot be aggressive? So we teach the dogs to walk behind us. Now you'll say, oh my God, that's crazy. I can't get my dog to even walk next to me. Well, you can't get your dog to walk next to you because your dog is trying to be in front of you and the relationship is broken. So some of the things that you can do is, again, you start out at home getting the dog, you go behind you, behind you, behind you.
You also then start working with the dog in a non distraction area, maybe your backyard put a leash on them and you can use things like a clicker. Everybody uses a clicker these days it seems. But not all people do. A click is just a marks of behavior as correct. It says, yes, a treat is coming and what you're doing is correct. It's like a picture of exactly that moment and says, now a treat's coming. So it marks it as correct. But you can use a word yes or you can say Good girl, you can praise her when she's behind you. But I think using treats as a first step to lure the dog behind you, if the dog tries to pass you, you can give a guttural tone and you can also use forward body language. So you flip around and put a little bit of body pressure on the dog to get them to stay behind you and then use a cue like let's walk.
We use that dog unsmart, don't we, Jamie? All the time. That's our cue I wouldn't use. Let's go. Because we say that to our husbands and our kids all the times. Hey, let's go. You're ready to go. So use the term, let's walk. It's its own particular cue and let's walk means walk behind me and as long as I'm walking, stay behind me. And I think if you can teach your dog to walk behind you, some dogs naturally walk behind you and those are the dogs that already know that you're in charge. But the ones that are constantly fighting you, those are the ones that need to change the relationship a little bit.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Yeah, I can say that I became a real believer. I've been with many years, but I became a real believer in understanding this is an instinctual position for dogs is when I had three dogs and I had a very dominant cattle dog. And whenever we were out on a walk, my other two dogs, border Collie and Beagle would never pass her tail. Never. She was out in front and would, and if they even tried, she would send them back to where they came from. They were so happy on the walk because they didn't have to do security detail. They could just be happy on a walk and know that she had it covered. And so that really made me understand how dogs view it when we own that front position and we decide what's safe and dangerous and they can just go along for the walk with less anxiety or fear.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, I mean, I will tell you, getting a dog to walk non reactively on a leash, the first step is trying to get that dog behind you. We have many clients, a dog smart, that come to us every single day dealing with this subject. And what we first do is we first teach them how to become a good leader. And you can go back on some of my other canine master radio shows and learn how to be a good leader. Just go through the old shows. We do talk about how to become your dog's leader and how to lead the dog. And let me just be very clear, leading the dog is not becoming abusive or aggressive or we're going to dominate you. It's not about that. It's about leading the dog. Most dogs are looking to be guided or led, so I wanted to just address that.
But in our classes we deal with this, people drop their dogs off to us. Gosh, it seems every holiday, can you get my dog to be non-reactive on a leash? So it's something that we do constantly and I think that it's a real big problem. And what we do is we teach the dog to walk in a let's walk behind us until we release them out of position. So almost like a sit or a down position, they stay in that position until they're released to go take a potty and people go, oh gosh, they're going to be so miserable. They're not miserable. They are so much happier and go happy and go lucky because they're not in the decision making process. We are. And the dogs learn to, they love their walks, they enjoy them, but they're taking your lead and following you and they will never be aggressive behind you.
Jaimee Kelsey:
And I mean even just a little example of when we'll start a new class, we may have 12 people come in with dogs and everyone comes in and that's why they're coming to us for help. And all of their dogs are pulling them across the room and they're letting their dogs pull 'em into the corner and smell and sniff. And I'll say, everybody stop. Just plant your feet. Don't let your dogs decide where you go. Just stop. But my dog wants to go here, but my dog wants to go there. Stop even that, just saying, Hey, I'm going to decide where we go when we go and not let my dog pull me everywhere. That's just like a little baby step to starting to be the decision maker on the walk. Even before you can get your dog behind you is not to let them dictate where to go all the time.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah. Jamie, there was one other question you had for us.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Yeah. Maybe you can just explain to our listeners, we say, don't let your dogs meet on leash. We can't drop the leash. And so can you just give some pointers on an appropriate way for people to safely introduce their dogs on leash to diminish that fight or flight reflex?
Chris Onthank:
Okay. So let me just say one thing that's really important. Introducing two dogs on leash that don't know each other is always a risky situation. I don't care. The dogs always seem friendly and oh, I never saw my dog do that before. Putting your dog in that decision making process and the dogs not knowing whether the dog, how the other dogs would react, it's always risky. That said, we're going to do it anyway, aren't we? Most of us, some of us will. And so here's some pointers. Do you want to get your dog when you're introducing him to another dog? Make sure that that dog, you're not pulling on the leash and tensing on the leash. When you pull on the leash, you're actually transmitting to your dog, Hey, I'm nervous. So you want to act very jovial and friendly. Oh, what a good boy.
I always tell people to do the jolly routine, which is a singy voice when they're starting to meet, oh, what a good boy you are. Say it in a very happy sing-song voice. This relaxes the dog. The next thing is don't hold your breath. Dogs here, especially your own dog, hears you when you hold your breath and knows that you're nervous. So if you're nervous when the dog is meeting another dog and the dog hears you holding your breath and not breathing and not being happy, the dog is going to sense. There's something to be nervous about. And will many times become reactive.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Even if clients will pull on the leash tighter, they'll grab a harsher grip of the leash because they're nervous and the dogs will sense that then their owners are nervous. And so then that can escalate.
Chris Onthank:
That makes the whole situation worse. So slack in the leash, you can guide your dog. Little pulls, but not a constant pull. And if you're going to have them meet, try to get your dog, the head to head part is the dangerous part. Try to get your dog to do a friendly greeting. And you know where a friendly greeting is For dogs, this is going to sound kind of disgusting. It's a butt sniff, a mutual, but sniff. That's a friendly greeting. So I don't tell people to do this when they're meeting people at cocktail parties, but certainly when you are introducing your dog to another dog, get 'em away from the face to face and get 'em right to the rear end where they can sniff each other's butts and do a friendly greeting. Then put slack in the leash and hopefully at that point the tension is over. So those are the ideas that I would do if I'm going to go against Chris's and introduce my dog to another dog on leash.
Jaimee Kelsey:
Okay, great.
Chris Onthank:
We do need to wrap up the show, Jamie. And I just want to thank you so much for being on the show today. Oh, of
Jaimee Kelsey:
Course.
Chris Onthank:
Yeah, and I think we gave some people some good pointers. I'd love to know your comments and have you join the conversation. And you guys can always email me at [email protected] and we'll be sure to answer your questions. And yeah, and they can also email Jamie.
Jaimee Kelsey:
You can email me. I'm the training director at Doggone Smart. My email is Jamie
[email protected], and we'll be happy to help you.
Chris Onthank:
Absolutely. So make sure to visit our website also. It's canine master.com. We have a monthly newsletter that is really informative, ingrained. You can sign up for that. We may even have you call into the show with your questions. So send me your videos and your photos so I can see what's going on with your dog and help you fix your problems. So Jamie and I, say bye for now and we'll see you next time on Canine Master on Pet Life Radio, where I will continue to help you master the relationship with your dog. Bye for now.
